Dark pied to a White hen

PeacockNSW · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:18 am

andrewschooks wrote:

"From loud or reverse pied to white, which i imagine will be a pied, but will they all be loud pied??"

These will be 50% 'loud or reverse pied' type and 50% white

Can you show the gentetic sequence on how you came to this? as reverse pieds never breed true.

PeacockNSW · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:27 am

andrewschooks wrote:

Assuming that split white is split to blue then:

25% homozygous pied (will look blue but mostly with the odd white wing feather)
25% pied split to blue (will look blue, slight chance of an odd white wing feather)
25% loud/reverse pied type
25% white split to blue (will look blue but have odd white wing feather)

No such thing as split to blue you mean split to pied and why would you assume it would be?

PeacockNSW · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:46 am

Pied and White genes are alleles* to each other. Meaning they are mutant genes that share the exact same "address" on the same chromosome. So you cannot have a bird pure for both Pied and White, and that is why they never breed true, because genetically they have one Pied and one White gene. So as Tolmie wrote they are genetically half white half pied with a third gene at play so a revere pied bred to white see my previous post for the correct outcome.

SWS · **Joined:** Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:39 pm **Posts:** 87

Thanks to all of you for the info its much appreciated, I had a call regarding this, that suggested that adding the white was detrimental to the pied/ rev pied, and that i should only consider ever breeding the best pied ( ie most white) to the Rev pied or risk messing with the mix.... It sounds wrong to me but i would love to get an opinion here... thanks again

PeacockNSW · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:51 pm

Using white will not be detrimental you just won't get reverse pieds. Also from the way it was explained by PA on the wall, breeding reverse is all about the gene breeding and nothing to do with visual pairings, if they do not have the right gene makeup then you won't breed them.

What do you have at the moment in the pied mutations?

SWS · **Joined:** Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:39 pm **Posts:** 87

Rev/ loud cock, and hen + 2 split whites that have pied in their history.. i am also looking at another rev hen this week and perhaps 2 pied hens that are close to 50%, not quite but close,,, if i got them then i would defiantly be getting another Rev cock to go with.... its decision time.......

PeacockNSW · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:26 pm

Are you sure they are reverse pied? if they are then breed the pied to pied if they are not you will still breed pied and white. Did you buy the pieds from Tolmie Peafowl? she has the best pieds in Victoria by far. All the best with breeding

SWS · **Joined:** Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:39 pm **Posts:** 87

No , not Tolmie... never came across them till i logged on here,, the REV i have are out of Parrots Australia NSW, i did not buy direct, but know where the blood came from.. the new blood i am looking at im not sure of, but i defiantly wanted to bring in different blood lines,,, I am right in thinking that Rev/loud means more than 50% white???? or is there another guide i should go by as well?? I kind of just figured get the most white pied i could and keep putting the most w/pied to the most w/pied i can afford and all should be good...
I guess i am showing my ignorance here, as breeding was never my priority, its just getting more and more interesting to me and i am trying to gain years of knowledge the cheats way,,, Ie asking people that have put in the time like you guys on this site.
I just figure if i am going to own peas, they are going to breed, so it becomes my responsibility to do the best i can by that.
Thanks for all your help,,,, all info to me is good info.

PeacockNSW · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:25 pm

Never heard of Parrots NSW they may be a small breeder of some sort. From my understanding a reverse is greater than 50% yes but it’s more like 70-80% to be a good reverse pied also its more about genetics of the bird not just visual like having a large number and high quality of reverse pieds like PA I guess some can fluke them. It is great your asking questions and wanting to know and learn I feel it is the responsibility of the more experienced breeders to pass on what they can and for the intermediate breeders to learn from the master of peafowl, PA who has passed on so such to all. I will share whatever I know and ask the master of peafowl if I don't know for anyone that love peas like I do.

Quote= "I just figure if i am going to own peas, they are going to breed, so it becomes my responsibility to do the best i can by that"

I love that, excellent you have an excellent out look

My pleasure

andre · **Joined:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:21 pm **Posts:** 612

The genetics are actually very simple. All the alleles are at the same locus.

To make it easier to follow I've used B, W, P letters to represent blue, white and pied. They have roughly that order of dominance as far as affecting phenotype.

Two white alleles at the locus = WW = white phenotype.
One white and one pied = WP = Pied with a fair amount of white on the bird. That is more than just a wing feather or two. The so-called reverse pied is a sub category of this phenotype.
Two pied alleles = PP = Blue phenotype with one to a few white wing feathers, may have a little under the chin too.
One white and one blue allele = WB = blue phenotype with odd white wing feather.
One pied and one blue = PB = Blue phenotype with a small chance of some white feathers on the wing.
Two blue alleles = BB this is a straight indian blue.

My earlier predictions are based on this information.

Thus matings of two 'Pied with fair amount of white' = PW x PW gives 25% PP, 50% PW and 25% WW. This is where the statement that Pieds never breed true come from. It is however important to be really careful to make sure that when someone is talking about Pied whether they are talking about PP or PW. This issue gets confused very often and you'll see postings on here that contradict themselves because of this issue.

There is also another complexity between what is reverse pied and regular 'pied with a fair amount of white' both are PW. Its just that reverse pied are highly selected for large amounts of white.

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