AUSTRALIAN POULTRY FORUM™

Sorry Drew any tour story would be off topic so I won't be going there mate. The topic is Javas. I appreciate the fact that you have such an interest in what I am doing. What year we went on our field trip, etc etc it is not really relevant to the conversation on Javas or the quality and really has nothing to do with much at all. I am sure every body on this forum has gone on a field trip to buy birds! As for information on Javas you asked for the information in your post expecting it to be on site, I merely suggested how you could go about getting the information you wanted and were asking for. I am not for one minute suggesting it is a competition and one breeder is better than another. I think you are being a bit hard on Fluffy feathers as her posting merely said that stock came from Adelaide and they had some of the most pure lines in the country which is true. Adelaide was renown for having some of the best stock in the country and many good lines can be traced back to the zoo.
She went on to say that two breeders one in NSW and one in QLD took Craigs collection of Javas??? I don't think she mentioned that no one else acquired birds from this same source. Photos and information speak for themselves that is why we are all here discussing Javas. Everybody has there own opinion but I don't think it is a competition as it seems to have turned into. It would be nice to stay on topic and have more photos and information on Javas and not on people, where they are, when they went on a trip or who has better stock..... Just my opinion. Javas are a privilege to keep and breed and to have a good sound line with little deviation to phenotype is a blessing.

Yeah, agree, it is not meant to be a one upping comp. But I have to say that some people are not in possession of a lot of relevant but private, or should I say even "secret" info regarding JGs and crossbreds! As I have never seen one I am not sure which pic is meant to be the good JG as Oto is maybe implying that yours are crossbreds Hutchy??????? Hutchy, I think I have that number of the guy near Adelaide which I passed on to my friend who is desperate to get some. I have 2 here that must have been products of a generations long ago crossbred, even though they came from Vic. They have the dark tops on the wings and the non-pied has black thighs. Father (deceased) had the same.

Re showing, I reckon it would be really hard on the birds, as really they are a wild bird always. Just my thoughts. Pam

Here Pam & hutchy
http://www.peacocksaustralia.com/pure%2 ... cross.html

[quote hutchy] My thoughts on a good Javan (male) -Tight crest with no ocelli feathers or splaying of crest. [end quote]
Hutchy, so on your thoughts, the one on the left is the good javan, and the one on the right which has a 'splaying crest' is not funny thing the one on the left is a cross

Maybe you could start a new topic on your 'tour' maybe titled 'javan tour' then you could post all the details, maybe you took the photos you posted on 30/6/09 & 7/6/09??? would that be close to your 'tour' date ??? It’s all very fascinating hutchy.
Cheers Drew Smith

Thanks for the link Drew. I will spend some time looking at as many pics of JGs as I can to get a feel for them. We just never see them. Because I would not have them I haven't really bothered with them but they are interesting. Pam

Just start a new topic. I'm not particularly interested in peafowl (yet), but I like field trips and I have been reading the Peafowl topics in recent days...even if only for the controversy.

If you have a genuine interest and are serious about Peafowl and have been on a recent trip, the information you could share may be quite helpful to other members and inspire further discussion which can only be a good thing...

...maybe.

Your dates are spot on Drew and you will notice the last posted photo has the date of the 20th of November 2008 some 7 - 8 months prior to the first two photographs. If I take disks out from 2007, 2006, 2005 etc to find more photographs of Javas or any subject taken on field trips these will also have dates on them...... Your point is??? I personally like to keep all photographs archived by the year they were taken so that they match diary entries. I like to keep records of who, where, when & why so that I know exactly what year disk/memory stick the visual reference can be found.
Which photograph are we referring to as the one I think you are referring is of a male as good (in my opinion) as is found in Australia as it is directly linked to Adelaide zoo and the bird on the right is not any form of cross as it is a blue?
A good Java is more than isolating one or two features. The purity of a bird needs to be judged as a whole package. What would be the point of having the perfect scaling and copper sheen if the bird has no leg under it and has a splayed crest with no yellow mask??? That would be like saying that if it has webbed feet and swims it must be a duck when in fact the object of your attention is a goose! If I have darker toned skin does this make me an aboriginal or could I in fact be a south African, Ethiopian or Indian? We inherit different things from our parents such as eye colour, hair colour, skin colour, height etc etc but just because I inherit one or two of these features does not mean I am a complete package. Many years later I could throw a recessive gene that has been hidden often referred too as a "throw back" by breeders, which means even though I look pure somewhere along the line I have hidden traits or genes that tell a truer story of how I was created. Sometimes these hidden genes can go unnoticed for many generations, am I still pure?
The link below shows what true Javas look like. These birds have been genetically tested for purity and some of this stock will be released back into the wild in there homeland from this breeder. http://www.pavo-muticus-muticus.de/english/index.html
There are plenty of overseas references but since we cannot import wouldn't it be more helpful to use Australian references and photographs as we could spend months going through sites and photographs overseas.
If these are such bad examples of birds available in Australia please feel free to post photographs of Australian birds which are similar or better than these birds that have been used as an example only. Feel free to be direct and tell me exact points that reflect your view that these are crosses. Feel free to critique individual points on these birds so that we can have an unbiased discussion on what is in fact a cross or not. As I said just because it swims doesn't mean it is a duck....... some where out there I think hippos are swimming too.

I don't have peacocks either but I am enjoying reading this, you raise some very interesting points Drew well done. I also viewed fluffy feathers parrot web site and felt a little nauseated at all the "I’m so great" "I am the best" nonsense on there, that’s all that’s on the site, nothing about peacocks very immature and not worth viewing if you ask me. If your trip was all about java peacocks Hutchy then it would not be off topic & I agree with greenaus If you have a genuine interest and are serious about Peafowl and have been on a recent trip then the info may be interesting. IMO

P.S so from what you just posted you’ve had them 1 or 2 months and you’re an expert now Hutchy well done, lost me

Raf

Click the link above


Raf

As already mentioned I want to talk peafowl, not my life history. I also have to respect peoples privacy as I have already mentioned above, I have no intentions of talking who and where which is a pretty integral part of a field trip story. These are not $10- birds and not only is privacy involved but alas some security issues are involved as well. I have listed states and how many visits were made in each state. Apart from some really interesting history and chat with some photographs being taken what more is there to say???
I have had my DNA sexed Javas from 4 months of age, they are 5 years this season. Does this make me an expert?... I think not. Did I say I was an expert?.... I think not. Even if I had 1000 pair would I be an expert?...... I think not!
P.S Just some quotes from others more famous than myself with similar ideas on what an expert is.....
“An expert is a man who has stopped thinking - he knows!”
“An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less, until eventually he knows everything about nothing.”
I am feeling like a broken record as already stated, animal people tend to go on field trips, to look, to buy, to learn, to socialise.... I did not state they were all Java related. Yes a few Java related trips over the years were made to be fully briefed in the way of the Mighty Green, not only to learn but also to buy stock. If genuine interest was involved coupled with a seriousness for Javas would you not be talking about the Javas?? Maybe I should start a new thread with the topic heading being "critiquing Javas and there hybrids" so member talk about the topic rather than photographs & dates, who is an expert, field trips, breeders details and private details, fluffy feathers website or who has ordered what from who..... I really did think that Java Greens was the topic..... Sorry if I misunderstood the Topic heading!

The topic is javan green we are all talking about javan green, you trip was about javan green wasn't it???????? My post is about javan green it's all about javan green have I said javan green enough off topic would be talking about a chook or a white peacock not talking about javan green. I thought you said you brought your javan greens on your trip?? and your trip was 2 months ago not 5 years?????I will go and look again at what you said.

You will learn in poultry we are all still learning regardless of how long we have had them


Raf