AUSTRALIAN POULTRY FORUM™

Ken, yes i have heard that to..about the BS being a cross that has been standardised (in Australia anyway)
...again pictures are invaluable, so i hope to see some soon, of real BS ie full black shoulder, and creamy white hens with black and brown speckles...

I will throw a spanner in the works with discussion on Black Shoulders. Overseas the females of black shoulders are the creamy colour with black/brown overtone. The specific mutation that caused the black shoulders in the males caused a corresponding colouration of the above in the hens.

What if the mutation that caused black shoulders here in Australia is different to the one that caused black shoulders overseas? Different gene/s changed, or combination of them. We would not specifically see a female the same colour as those O/S.

I have often wondered with all poultry breeds and mutations etc that have occured O/S and how we in Australia compare to O/S. But since there has not been any real gene flow for decades. Can we really compare and contrast the mutations found in Australia with those overseas?

I hope that people can decipher my rambling....

Well according to you [the leading oz expert] we don't have them



Zach posted this nonsense on a Yank Forum [that virtually no one uses] please do not speak or make statements for all Australians just for yourself as a learner peafowl keeper like you friend Tash clearly is [who ever that is]

5 minute experts don't yu just love em

I may learn to fly a plane tomorrow but wait in 5 minutes and I will be a top gun pilot

Sorry PNSW,
I didnt mean to speak for everyone in aus, but so far i am unconvinced that we have the REAL Blackshoulder India Blues (the ones available in the UK, US, etc..)
But if anyone can come up with some pictures of the REAL cockbirds with FULL black shoulders, and creamy yellow/white hens with the black brown and buff specks and flecks in aus then...well lets just say seeing is believing...

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner its only logical that our mutations are different, good on you Ken, you worked it out like the rest of us, well not all by the looks. See it pays to talk to Australian's about Australian birds.

Ok, we are each entitled to our own opinions, again without pics of full black shouldered males i am not convinced, so if someone wants to help me out with this? so that i can become a believer?

That is true BUT what you wrote was not an opinion it’s a statement of nonsense and I speak from fact and experience.


Beginners like you and this Tash person have a place but you also need to know your place and to the experienced and knowledgeable breeders your sort of post [the one above] is offensive as you simply do not know or have the knowledge or experience. I only hope you see the light and stop mixing with 'others' that are leading you astray and feeding you nonsense and lies for their warped agenda.

Good luck

Its good to start the day with a hearty laugh



George

I understand a few peoples reservations on accepting that there are Black Shoulders in Australia.
As a few people have mentioned it would be great to see pictures of the birds found in Australia, but I understand how busy people are and how time consuming it can be uploading pictures especially if you don’t have a great internet connection. I have heaps of pictures that I have been meaning to upload on several sites for ages now.
With the Black Shoulders that are in Australia, what colour are the females? I suspect from the comments made by several people on here that they are not the Black Shoulder coloured as in USA and Europe. Is there a colour difference between them and the normal blue hens?
I will not say that I am a novice in the area of peacocks as I have been involved with them for over 20 years now, but I am a novice with regards to mutations and colours other than blue. I love getting onto these sites and reading about the experiences of other people. The knowledge of others is priceless.
One gripe I have about any site is the way that beginners are sometimes treated like idiots. PeacocksNSW, beginners definitely have a place, they are the future. Without the novices the birds that are our passion will become extinct. I can understand the comments made by Riverlook Poultry about Black Shoulders being nothing more than Spaulding’s, he does have a point about pictures. I know that in the Gallery someone pointed out the male bird in picture 167 as an example of a Black Shoulder. That individual had what, about 25% of his shoulder as being black. (and before anyone has a go at me criticising that bird, his name was Strudder, my grandmother and I collected him as a yearling bird back in 1991-1992, he died in heat wave in November 2010. He was/is one of my birds) It is hard to discuss him as an example of a Black Shoulder when seeing birds on Overseas websites. But that brings into play one of my previous comments about differences in Mutations between Australian and Overseas birds.
As for novices/beginners, there are some individuals that once they have read a book/seen a docu on a topic and becomes an expert. But most are just happy to share their ideas, thoughts and opinions and learn from more experienced breeders.
I also am a breeder of Old English Chooks. Believe me there are some debates that can happen in that arena, Carlisle/Oxford and Dub/Non-Dubbed. Some can become very heated. I have left some websites due to the nature that the discussions can turn into.
Here we have a site that is frequented by some very experienced breeders all the way down to the admirer of peacocks. Can we please just stick with the Peacocks, there will always be someone that says something that’s incorrect, but can we just reply without making it personal?

My apologies for another ramble.....

In reply to you Ken I have never said the beginner or novice did not have a place in peafowl but what I did say was they need to know their place. When a beginner makes baseless statements and posts them as fact on a foreign site then he or she needs to be corrected. Unfortunately you do not know the full background of this story and I won't go into it now. I have a great deal of time for the beginner and novice, you only need read this forum to see that but some I will not as they have an ulterior motive.

Now on to your question, as it has been posted before on this forum our mutations are not the same as those from foreign countries. The black shoulder in Australia is NOT the same as that of foreign countries, how could it be! And yes some are pale in the hens and some are not as this mutation varies in the hens [as it does in foreign countries but not to the same degree]. As far as the peacocks the black on the shoulder also varies [as it does in foreign countries but not to the same degree] the peacock in your picture is a low % I have seen pictures from PA that are all black on the shoulder and most of the wing also. I can also tell you THEY ARE NOT CROSSED WITH GREENS.

I see no reason at all to suggest our black shoulders are crossed so

I ask Riverlook Poultry to show proof of his claim? SHOW PROOF not repeat crap that someone is telling him. SHOW PROOF as he demands
And
I ask you Ken how you can understand that they are cross bred [I don’t use the yank term – Spaulding what a joke]? What do you base this on?

P.s This forum has the most experience breeders this country has ever seen and many here have kept them 40 -50 years.